Speaker 1: 0:10

All right guys. Welcome to episode 19 of its personal and entrepreneurs podcast. This is going to be another real estate heavy episode. It's the Fadden McKelvey group with the Kirkman group. We've got Scott Kirkman and Jimmy Dean in the house, who are also our office mates here, and we're very thankful for you guys coming on and taking the time to be here with us. This should be a good time, so I really just want to start out by asking both of you a little bit about the Reader's Digest version of your personal background and how you guys ended up working together and or getting into real estate in general. Want to go first?

Speaker 2: 0:48

Go for it. Tell the best story, scott, all right.

Speaker 3: 0:52

Well, a long time ago, no. So I got my license for real estate about two or three weeks before Hurricane Michael hit Good timing, so it was terrible timing. I was a professor at Gulf Coast State College, okay, in fact A professor of Music, and then, at the time, digital media. In fact I was Andrew's teacher. Was he a good student, you know? I barely remember him. So, yeah, he must've been good. That means I wasn't bad.

Speaker 3: 1:22

But I do know that when I wasn't bad, but I do know that the first time I met you guys, both his name looked familiar. I'm like that sounds familiar and he looked familiar. So, yeah, um, uh, but he must've been a good student. But uh, I was, uh, I was professor at Gulf Coast state college. I was running, uh, wkgc, the campus radio station. Uh, at the time, and, uh, you know, I'd gotten my license.

Speaker 3: 1:44

I was just kind of interested in real estate. I had the idea that it was going to be fun and easy and uh, and everybody, everybody thinks that, yeah, um, and it's, you know, you get paid tons of money and you don't do anything, and that's certainly not the truth. But, um, so hurricane Michael hits and I was really thankful I hadn't quit my job yet because I thought it was over and it really turned out to be a huge blessing. There's a lot of connections and people I met through doing Hurricane Michael. Wkgc was stationed at the Bay County Emergency Operations Center and we were providing live coverage during the storm and we were the last station.

Speaker 2: 2:25

You were the only coverage we were.

Speaker 3: 2:27

We were the last to go off the air locally and the first to come back on locally Interesting. And yes, there was always this small chance. And I was on air. My colleague comes in and she said you're it. And I said what are you talking about? She said MBB is down, channel 7 is down, wpap is down, we're it. And so we were on for another hour or so after everybody else. Our generator did not kick on the transfer switch, didn't you know? We made the decision to not be media.

Speaker 3: 2:58

We were we really said we're going to be emergency services, so we're getting information from the county and we're saying yeah, and our words to them were listen, if you want it on the air, we put it on the air, If you don't want it on the air, we don't say it. I've been in hurricanes before, when I lived in South Florida, and you get, you know, some of the media carries, you know, Sensationalize they do, or they'll tell people that there's gas here and there's not anything there, and so to me it was important that we provide something accurate. Yeah, that makes sense. Through that I met a lot of really great people. Obviously, the beach was good still, thankfully, after Hurricane Michael. So I started doing some more work and then I fell into working with investors on damaged homes, which also turned out to be huge figuring out after market or after remodel value, ARV on a home and helping investors buy those, you know, buy those Um. And that helped me get out of my full-time job to do real estate full-time.

Speaker 3: 4:08

And then, um, I met Jimmy. Um, I didn't like him when I first met him. You know, is this um, but uh, I want to hear more about that. Well, he looked, he dressed like an insurance salesman the first time we were to a company meeting and he's dressed nicer than everybody else. He's got a nice tie and a pink shirt, gray slacks.

Speaker 3: 4:30

I'll never forget it, and a group of us were having a discussion, we were talking after the meeting, and he kind of barges in, he's like, hey, I'm Jimmy Dean. I'm like, yeah, you are, um, and then he'd walk into the office and he's all singing and like, who is this guy? High energy baby, uh, wait till he's jaded by the business, you know. And uh, then I don't know, I think I ran into him. I was showing a house and he was following me, um, with a, with his buyer, and he hadn't shown any houses before and, um, so I stayed around. Uh, that was my last showing, so I stayed around. That was my last showing, so I stayed around with him. We toured the house and talked to his buyer together and I realized he's not that bad, so and it's developed into a great friendship and got another company together and proud that he's my partner.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Yeah, that's the what's your side of the story, jimmy.

Speaker 2: 5:22

So my side of the story is you dress with the job you want, right, which is you?

Speaker 3: 5:28

wanted to be an insurance salesman. I want to be the boss.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Rick Ross no, I did show up. I come from ministry so I traveled me and my family for years. My family has over 50 years total of traveling in evangelistic ministry. That's incredible. So I grew up in suits and ties and dress clothes so it was kind of not abnormal for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I showed up in a real estate office and everybody's wearing polos and shorts and flip-flops I'm like Bay County is the most lax one.

Speaker 3: 6:02

What is this?

Speaker 2: 6:04

But you know in their defense.

Speaker 1: 6:05

I can help you get your spiritual house correct and the roof over your head.

Speaker 2: 6:09

That's right. That's a great market. That's for me and my house and I'll say this about Jimmy.

Speaker 3: 6:15

So he's a singer and I did worship at First United Methodist Church and this past Sunday it was kind of sports day, Like yeah, we told people wear your jerseys or whatever, and so I invited Jimmy to play with our band and Jimmy wears a jersey and then we get ready to go on the platform and he puts on a jacket. Put a jacket on for it, but he comes from suits and ties. It's a Lord's house. I felt the need to do it.

Speaker 1: 6:41

So a mentor I don't know why you got to make me. I don't know why you got to make me the weird one, the amok one.

Speaker 2: 6:51

You're not necessarily, anyways, the the almighty one, you're not necessarily anyways. So I was told by a mentor one time that 70 of being a successful agent or successful businessman in any sense is presentation. Yeah, so you know. Dress for the job you want, show yourself, show yourself. Well, yeah, um, relating to real estate when you go to show a house, are you going to just open the doors and say here it is, or are you going to show the house? Are you going to tell them the good, the bad and the ugly? Are you going to highlight the features that are the big selling points? Well, I don't got a whole lot. I'm from Harlan County, kentucky, so I didn't have a lot to choose from. God blessed me to be a pretty good looking man, so I might as well dress it up Right.

Speaker 1: 7:37

I think they made a show about Harlan.

Speaker 2: 7:39

They did.

Speaker 1: 7:39

Yeah, justified.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Yeah, it's a great place to be from.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Yeah, now that's. That's. My people, my family's still there. Yeah, traveling in ministry we traveled to the panhandle. So yeah, traveling and ministry, we traveled to the Panhandle. So we got to come down to Florida, came down here pretty frequently. So we come down here to sing. Actually, we've done everything from Canada. Where did you sing when you came down here? Everywhere. So we sang in Ocala, bradenton, the Tampa area. We sang here in Panama City, panama City Beach, okay, so I think we only did the Gulf side primarily, and then central Florida. We never really did anything on the East Coast, but from Canada to Florida we ministered and we come to Florida and my dad, who was the founder of the group, he really liked it and he's retired.

Speaker 2: 8:30

We're coal miners, so we come from under a rock, literally, and in the hills of Kentucky, southeastern Kentucky, harlan County. So all I ever knew was coal mining. Yeah, and in my hometown it'll always be home. I don't degrade it or knock it in any way, but in a way way it's slowly turning into a ghost town. Yeah, there's really no economy and unless you work in the medical field, the school system or the coal mines, there's nothing else? Yeah, there's nothing else to do. What would you say? The population is, oh, in my town, where you went to school, where you went to school, where I went to school, a few thousand people. Okay, so you graduated with like 50 people.

Speaker 2: 9:18

I think there were 38 people in my graduating class. I graduated with 645 people.

Speaker 3: 9:22

My goodness, I had 120. Maybe At the time I was Arnold's largest class, new school, sure, but it was like 350 or something.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Long story short, my wife told me to get out of there. She was from north carolina, a little bit bigger town. She said, um, we need to go somewhere where our kids have a future. Yeah, so, in ministry, we traveled down here. We liked it. My dad stayed a while.

Speaker 2: 9:46

It wasn't long after that I found a rental. Now, mind you, this was post hurricane, okay, so there was nothing to find. But, by the grace of god, I found a rental. Now, mind you, this was post-hurricane, okay, so there was nothing to find. But by the grace of God, I found a rental property, moved down here, lived here for a little bit, I worked full-time in ministry, I was on staff as a worship pastor for about three years and then I bought a house here.

Speaker 2: 10:08

And when I bought a house here, the agent I worked through, she made it look so easy. I was like, oh my God, if she can do this, anybody can do this. So I was like I'm going to go get my real estate license. I'm already good at connecting with people. You know, take your pastor hat off, put your real estate hat on. You know. You know how to facilitate people. You know how to counsel people. You know how to. You know hold their hand when they're sad, and you know how to remain calm when they're cussing you out yeah but I was like if she can do this, anybody can do this.

Speaker 2: 10:38

So I got my real estate license, as everybody else in the panhandle I could. I didn't know that at the time, right no after I got them after I got my real estate license.

Speaker 1: 10:49

I was like when I first started thinking about getting my real estate license and I was like crunching, like commission math, like I would incorporate sales, you know like yeah, and I was like yeah, if I sell man, if I sell two it two a month, that's a very good living. Two's, not that number yeah right, I can do two and I easy work. Now I'm like, dude, that's 24 transactions, like if you're doing that out the gate, you're a stone cold killer. Yeah yeah, I know how difficult that actually was.

Speaker 2: 11:18

So I went into real estate, met Scott, I spent the first few months. So I've come to realize for myself. And then now I tell all other agents and I'm a certified mentor with the XP. So I tell my mentees the first six months is the worst, six months Like out the gate. It's guaranteed You're going to spend six months learning how to do real estate in the field. Because they don't teach you how to do real estate in real estate school. No, they teach you real estate law.

Speaker 2: 11:46

brokerage procedure how to not get in trouble with the Florida Real Estate Commission, other things you don't need to know, but they don't teach you how to do a test, how to not get in trouble with the Florida Real Estate Commission, other things you don't need to know, but they don't teach you how to do real estate. No, so the first six months you're going to spend just learning the business. It's sad I didn't see a real estate listing agreement, a contract for probably five months of being an agent, and then I teamed up with this guy. So basically Scott was closing transactions, the Kirkman Group.

Speaker 2: 12:16

At the time they were like I wasn't affiliated but they were at the top of the mountain crushing it I mean just top of the leaderboard every month and I was like I don't know what those people are doing, but I want to do whatever they're doing. So I got with him that's when I kind of inserted myself to go back to his conversation. That's when I inserted myself into the conversation it was like hey, I'm Jimmy Dean, and he was like in a pink shirt and he was like, okay, what do you want? And I'm like, really. So anyways, it did transcend into a great friendship, a good business relationship.

Speaker 1: 12:57

He's my partner in the renovation business and so you guys also have your renovation business, which is called.

Speaker 3: 13:05

Renew Space.

Speaker 1: 13:06

And how did that come about?

Speaker 3: 13:08

Really it was Jimmy. So I have lots of aspirations of being a great carpenter and all of that and I'm not really I mean, I just I know I'm not. Uh, jimmy really is very good at a lot of that and we were working on repairs on a listing that I had. You know, just some of those little things that you got to take care of that you. You know you can do. There's no reason to pay somebody else for it, sure.

Speaker 3: 13:35

So Jimmy was helping me out and we had talked we're like, well, we could, we should do something like this. And he had a listing just down the street from his own house and it was just simple that the, the, the owner, needed, you know, new floor. She had carpet and wanted an LVP down, and so Jimmy got us the gig and we put it down. We could make some money doing this and we did, and it's needed service for a lot of clients, sure, and the idea really is that as listing agents, really we can take care of our listings in that regard Instead of having to pay somebody expensive and get on their schedule and that sort of thing. So we haven't really tried to solicit outside business. It was really just for ours.

Speaker 2: 14:21

So it's turned out well. I tell people that our renovation services and it is a service that we as realtors have, because me and Scott always tell people we're realtors first but we own a renovation company around our real estate business so the whole ideal of Renewed Spaces was we are going to work solely in the capacity of our real estate clientele, which is our sellers and our buyers. So we do pre-listing renovations to get it ready to put on market. We do post-closing renovations, saying buyer buys it. We do appraisal and inspection repairs. So we haven't went to get any additional business or marketed ourselves outside of our real estate clientele and we've stayed busier than we care to be.

Speaker 1: 15:13

So it's a good niche. The pipeline is already there if you're doing real estate business and it is a service in a lot of ways, like how there's some larger real estate teams and businesses that offer moving services, and it's not that they charge nothing, but they charge something reasonable. And I think just being able to provide a service that you have control of, without having to rely on a third-party vendor, even if you're getting paid for it, has a lot of value yeah, it's, I've learned a lot and um, we, basically we bought some hats.

Speaker 3: 15:45

That's about the year. The students of our market really.

Speaker 1: 15:49

Uh, we bought some hats and really that was just for us business, the one that doesn't need a lot of marketing.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Yeah it was just for us and to be able to give to, like some, you know, any folks that we have working with us, just to have some identity and give a couple away, and so it does build some more timeline to list people's home too, because I mean just waiting around on someone to get out to you with quote something much less get it on the books to get get it done, and they're not urgent the same way you are, because they're going to get that job done when they get it done and get paid for it, but they're not worried about the timeline of someone selling their house Right.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah, Most of the time it's the pre-listing things that we cover. Yeah, and being realtors you guys as well we know what we're going to see on an inspection report. So we already know the things that are going to be notated, what they look for, before we ever put the property on market. We can tell the seller when they ask do you know of anything we should do? Is there anything we need to do to help sell the house? Well, yes, we know exactly what you need to do, because we're realtors.

Speaker 3: 16:48

You need to take care of that.

Speaker 1: 16:49

wood rot and it's hard sometimes to find somebody to take care of wood rot, because it's a small job, it's not really worth their, their time. It's worth our time. Yeah, it makes sense and there's there's a big gap, I think, between, like what a seller or consumer believes people will care about and wants to address, versus what buyers or consumers like actually kind of care about when they come look at stuff. So to be able to fill that gap I think is valuable too, yeah. So let's circle back, let's go back to real estate, real estate.

Speaker 2: 17:21

How did we get to interviewing Renewed Spaces here?

Speaker 1: 17:25

You know it's a good business and it's a tie-in to what you guys do in real estate to add service ad right, and that makes you guys do in real estate to add service ad right and that's makes you guys differentiate it. What? What is it that you would say that you know now about the real estate business, that you did it when you first got into it. That would be like a good piece of advice to say, like a newer agent or someone considering getting into real estate, like that one you know, nugget I don't know if there's one nugget, it's more probably of a bigger rock than anything, but somebody new in the business, I would tell them one.

Speaker 3: 17:58

It's a small business, not the real estate industry. Your business is a small business and thus you have to treat it as such. That and being truly committed to doing the very best that you can with every deal.

Speaker 1: 18:21

When you get that opportunity, you really got to like maximize it.

Speaker 3: 18:24

Yeah, that. And I would say learn something from every deal. Every deal is different. No deal is cookie cutter. You know something's going to go sideways and and you know it's. It's irritating, it's frustrating, you know it's, but, you know, embrace it, learn from it and use it next time.

Speaker 2: 18:43

What about you, jimmy? What I would tell a new agent is it's not wash, rinse, repeat. As he said, everything is new, everything is different. And what I learned coming in at the most difficult time, what I think is the most difficult time of the real estate industry here in the panhandle well, nationally, really, with the recent changes with the NARS settlement. I come in at the back end of COVID. So COVID was kind of still a thing but it was kind of vanishing. But we had those great interest rates still when I got licensed. So I did some deals, got some good interest rates for my clients and then rates started going up.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Everybody lost focus of COVID and it was politics and mortgage rates started going up. Buyers stopped buying. Everybody's freaking out. Well, we had 3% rates last year. Now we're looking at 5% rates. Right, like you know what people would give for a 5% rate right now? Yeah, like that's crazy. And then the old timers are like, oh, I remember when it was 12 and 13%. And I'm like, well, the truth is, and this is a, so it's ever changing. That's what I would tell them Never get content, never get complacent, because it's always going to change.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Yeah, and I I agree with that, and I think another thing to stem off of that is is, when you first get into real estate, go study historically and ask some people that have been in the business for a while what some of those historical trends have looked like and what the causation between some things in economics, between, like the Fed and mortgage rates, and understand some basic economic principles, because if you don't understand that better than the client that you're talking to, it's going to be very obvious and it's going to be difficult to close people. When those things do change. You have to be able to understand it on a minimal level. Do change, you have to be able to understand it on a minimal level. And I think, though, the main thing and I'm going to plug this only because I want to make a content piece out of it, but the truth is is that it is always going to cost money to borrow money.

Speaker 1: 20:48

It's actually banks would have never lended money between two and 3% had it not been subsidized by the federal government. It was subsidized a lot longer than it should have, based on historical economic trends and Fed regulatory policy, probably politically driven right, but the truth is, people just got used to that for a generation and they would. Like I said, the banks would never, ever, ever lend money for 30 years at a time, for two to 3%. No consumer would either. No one with their own money would ever do that, and so now we're feeling the fallout of that, and what people need to realize is the new normal is that it'll probably not be like that for a long, long time, if ever again. 5%, 4.5% and up to 8% is pretty much what it costs to borrow money.

Speaker 3: 21:35

Well, you mentioned a generation, but there was a group of buyers that came in. That that's all they knew. Right, they're entering into the real estate market.

Speaker 1: 21:43

For a long period of time, because the Fed subsidized the housing market for a lot longer than it should have post 2008, 2009.

Speaker 3: 21:51

And I would add to that for a new agent and I was told this, but I was never really given any good reason as to why but partner up with a good lender, and not just because of doing business, but so that you can call them and pick their brain, you know. Find out about what's this mean for mortgage rates. What's going on?

Speaker 2: 22:10

Yeah. So, in short, you know, to new agents, be informed, be as informed as humanly possible with the industry today, with the history, with what's up and coming, with changes that are happening that haven't happened yet, that are possibly going to happen, yep. So just be informed. That's going to carry your business.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Yeah, I agree, and I think something that I wish somebody that kind of goes hand in hand with those two things is I wish that I had sought out someone to help give me some of this information on an accelerated timeline a little bit earlier on. Yeah, um, I just coming from, like, corporate sales and people management, I thought I understood business very well, which which I did to a certain degree, but I didn't understand real estate very well. And, uh, having somebody who can like fill in that gap in a couple months, versus you trying to fill it out, figure it out over like the course of years is, is extremely helpful too. So don't be too proud to ask for help, I guess absolutely yeah, insert yourself into the conversation.

Speaker 3: 23:19

Just walk into somebody's office unannounced, unwelcome especially sometimes, hey, I mean sometimes, that is what you have to do you know, when I and I I put this as, as you know, the example for a lot of my life but, um, in school I wasn't the best student and a lot of times it was because I was afraid to ask. Yeah, um, and that caused, uh, you know, some some issues when I was in college, like I just I didn't do well, well enough, so I was afraid to ask. When I got to graduate school, I said forget that, and I asked and asked and asked until I understood.

Speaker 1: 23:54

When you finally lose, you get to a place that's like granular enough that you kind of lose your pride and you come into ultimate humility. That's a time when you feel better about asking and that's when you really start, when you realize you know nothing but other people have the information and you can become someone who absorbs that. That's kind of when a trajectory of your life in general, whether it's school or something else, becomes better.

Speaker 3: 24:19

And in real estate you will find, at least here in Bay County, that there are agents that are seasoned. They've been around a long time. They recognize your green and will impart upon you some knowledge. So I remember early on we're trying to destroy you. That happens, there's that too.

Speaker 3: 24:35

We've all been there, and Stroud, who's been selling real estate for a long time. But she and I were on the phone for some reason or another and she just imparted on me some of the basics of real estate and the real estate business that no one had shared with me. You don't find it in a book. And she said we're all on the same team, we're all trying to do the same thing, we're just wearing different jerseys, but there's enough business to go around.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, there's a slice of the pie for everyone.

Speaker 3: 25:04

Yeah, for the people who are really trying to do it, you know, intentionally and full-time and educated, there's definitely enough to go around, I agree with that and yeah, and she shared with me and I did this with agents in our brokerage and also just whenever I run across it, like you can tell an agent who's new and you know there might be in a little bit over their head and there's two paths, I mean you can, you can bury them and just try to be, you know, just be a jerk and you know. But that's not how it was done to me At least not a lot. I I've experienced some of that, so you know I'm work with the agent like this is your first time, isn't it All right? So let's try to do this and help them to understand so that they get past that beginning.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Yeah, no, no, I agree completely, yeah. So okay, you guys have been in real estate. How long now?

Speaker 3: 25:52

We're coming up on six years.

Speaker 1: 25:53

Three years, okay, so that's what you would tell a new agent. Now that you're a more seasoned agent, what is something that you know now, that is a cornerstone of something you do every day.

Speaker 3: 26:10

You have to work hard every day and um and I still struggle at some of this, which is, you know, time blocking, making sure that you're making the phone calls, following up, um, consistently with your one, with your clients, your active clients. Yeah, just because you have them under contract doesn't mean you just don't talk to them. You can't lose sight of those people you deals with already exactly, and you know, stay in, lose sight of those people you've done deals with already Exactly, and you know, stay in touch with the people that you've done your deals with. And you've somebody said it this way once realtors are the only people to wake up every day unemployed, so we have to go out and you have to work to find a job every day, so to speak. So, as a seasoned agent and I'm not perfect at it I struggle with it because sometimes you get comfortable and you just don't want to.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Well, yeah, and it's habitual. Prospecting, no matter what the sales industry is, is an exhausting feat. I don't think that you can really compartmentalize the mental toll that that takes, right? Yeah, not knowing where the next thing comes from and then staying on it, positively high energy, irregardless of what the daily result is.

Speaker 3: 27:22

It's difficult? Sure it is, and so you know, I experienced it. So last year was just. It was just a rough year. I had come off of a couple of years being a top producer. I was in the top 25 in our MLS by the time. At the end of the year it got hard. I started 2023. I lost a couple of deals just right out of the box. It happens, it's part of the business. But I was struggling and I talked to a friend of mine and he said man, it's hard. You run all year long, you try to squeeze it all in by the end of December so you can get those. I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue.

Speaker 3: 28:00

I did, you know, and the market shifted all at the same time, so I was not in a I was not mentally in a place to put the work in to, to change my daily schedule, to shift with the market, and you know I did. Okay, it wasn't a terrible, terrible year, but it wasn't a great year either, but, um, kind of going through that and it's sort of like a.

Speaker 1: 28:36

this year was like all right, let's get back on it and do it again and I think to that point, like the, the whole idea of um thinking of things in like a calendar term, in something like real estate or even insurance sales or whatever it is, is probably not ideal. You have to think of it in like a daily, weekly, monthly term and to your point, with like time blocking and processes and things that are consistent and repeatable, and do them over and over again. And if you do that long enough, you know consistently enough, then you'll have the result that's desired from it. But if you think of it like this grand big thing that has to be done within this specified time frame and an exact slow instead it, it makes it a much harder thing to compartmentalize.

Speaker 3: 29:23

It's like about getting those small wins every year that compound to a bigger win so I mean for for me it wasn't even the the squeezing it all into the year. It's just that 20 and 21 and 22 was easy and hard. Yeah, you know, there was nothing for me at the time like I would have. I would have six, seven, eight, ten deals going on at one time and there's a lot to handle as a single one. It's a lot to handle as a single agent and, like I'm, I'm not someone who stresses out and freaks out a lot, but I was finding myself waking up in the middle of the night going did I do that? Did I do this? Did I do that? Did I do this? My wife ultimately ended up stepping in to help out with some of that, to help keep me organized, because you can only handle so much of that before you really start to let things fall through the cracks.

Speaker 1: 30:07

And I think real estate's one of those businesses going back to what you said at the beginning of thinking of like a small business. When you get to that size, that's when you really have to start thinking of things like TC, VA, An admin assistant Because you could actually do a lot more of that following up with your client base and interacting with new clients and building off of that versus just trying to constantly handle the minutiae in between these deals that make you stressed out.

Speaker 3: 30:33

No, I'd asked somebody once. You know how do you know it's time to get an admin or some sort of assistant? And they said well, by the time you realize that you need one, it's too late. Well, yeah, that's probably accurate. Yeah, way too late. So, and then you're playing catch up.

Speaker 1: 30:46

You've got to try to juggle all that thinking of it like a business instead of me trying to just maximize as an individual. How many transactions can I do and how much can I keep? You have to think about how much can I reinvest to make it sustainable over the course of time, month after month, and and expand upon that right. And your time is limited and, as a, as an agent, the the most important thing that your time can be spent doing is interacting with the next client or your current client, and you can't do that if you're doing paperwork Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Order and service.

Speaker 1: 31:19

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 31:20

Exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:21

I heard it the same way. They said as an agent, as a realtor, every morning, when your feet hit the floor, you're going out of business. If you're not writing a contract, if you don't have a closing scheduled that day, if you're not showing a house every single day, you're going out of business.

Speaker 1: 31:37

And like a business principle in general, outside of real estate, if you're not growing, you're dying. And I believe the real estate business is like that in 2025 that we end up helping in 2024, there's someone else that's hungrier, that's more aggressive, that's going to make sure that the next year I'm doing even less clients than I did the year before. And in business that's true, I mean on a smaller scale, when it's a self-employed, smaller business and you're growing. But you look at even big companies like Blockbuster or something like that, they stopped thinking outside the box and growing and just they liked their business model and they thought they were invincible and they died ultimately. And I think, even though we're small businesses, you have to think about it in those terms Because if you're not changing with things and adapting to the market, you're going to get lost in the sauce very quickly. It's a lot of competition out there, absolutely A lot of competition.

Speaker 2: 32:32

The way I had to start viewing it was, you know, when I first got licensed as a new agent and I say this now as a seasoned agent. When I first got licensed I was like I work for me. Yeah, I work for me, I can take the day off If I choose. I work because I want to, not because I have to. And I kept telling myself and telling everybody I work for me. I had to change that quickly. I learned I had to get into the mindset I don't work for me, I work for my business and if my business doesn't succeed, I don't succeed. So I had to change that mindset in. I'm not an independent like just one man band here. I'm running a business and if it doesn't succeed, I don't want it to just survive, I want it to thrive, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Yeah, no, I agree, and I think, like even a step further on. That is is yes, you work for your business, but you work for there's people out there that genuinely need help, that aren't aware that they need help. And when you get on the phones or you knock on their door or you get referred to them or whatever, if you're taking time off, you can't be there to find those people that need help, that don't need that. No, they need help. That's right. And if you want to work in this business, your creed has to be finding people that need help, that don't need they need to know they need help and then helping them it's a hard thing, though, to keep yourself accountable.

Speaker 1: 33:55

It is but, but I'll go something a little spiritual on you, okay. So if you think and you know we talked about this even in the last episode if you think to yourself that and you believe in something beyond yourself and you think that you're supposed to be in front of certain people and that that will be true on a daily basis as long as you're aligned with you know that thing that you believe in for being, you know Jesus Christ. But if you believe that that's true, that doesn't mean that it's just going to happen, right. Yeah, that's not even biblical really. That doesn't mean that it's just going to happen right, that's not even biblical really. It just means that you still have to go put in the work that God intended you to do on this earth, whatever the thing you choose is, but if you go do it, that will happen.

Speaker 1: 34:43

And if you trust, no matter what happens yesterday or today, even if the thing that makes you feel good, that positive feedback of a deal, or that person, that the people you did talk to, or the person you did come across at the store, or the person that did answer the phone call, was the correct person that you were supposed to talk to, it gives you a lot different of a perspective. To keep reaching out to them, like prospecting for me is not just about these days finding a deal, it's about knowing that for some reason I was put in front of this person. So until they literally tell me to stop, I'm gonna keep reaching out to them. I'm not gonna be aggressive necessarily, but I believe that I'm put in front of certain people for a reason and if you can think of prospecting in a spiritual sense, it makes it a lot easier to wake up and do it. I believe it does.

Speaker 2: 35:28

But you have to, spiritually speaking, listen. You can't say you're going to go spiritual on me because I'll start preaching to you now, but the thing is looking at it not in a fleshly perspective but in the spiritual perspective we have to. The apostle Paul said I have to crucify my flesh daily. Yeah, in business, every day, you have to crucify your flesh. You have to in business, every day. You have to crucify your flesh. You have to discipline yourself. I read a book recently and one of the statements in it stuck out to me and stuck with me. It said we must become champions to our own discipline. Champion. Who's the champion? The champion's first place, not second place, not third place. First place is the champion. If you get second place, in any contest, it's, it's good, you did all right. But that goes back to surviving and thriving yeah second place is good, but you still didn't win.

Speaker 1: 36:25

Somebody did better than you in proverbs 12 it says that he who's disciplined will basically be favored. Right, discipline shows up, the word discipline shows up a lot of times throughout the Bible and I don't think there's any mistake to that. And prosperity means different things. It doesn't always mean financial, and that's something that we have to remember. But if you want to prosper whatever that definition that God has for you is you have to be disciplined in something. You can't go throughout life without disciple yourself.

Speaker 3: 36:57

Going back to what you were saying about being put in front of people is I had a lead that came through. It was a zillow lead. I go meet the guy. He's gonna sell his house once. His interest in sell his house. So the truth is is the story is that they're getting divorced and so he and I talk about it and she's got a friend who's a realtor. So I already know that there's a strong likelihood I'm not going to be a part of this deal.

Speaker 3: 37:22

But I felt for the guy. He reached out and so I said listen, this is. I did a CMA on the house. I said this is what I think you can sell it for. You know, having somebody that you know as your realtor in this sort of situation is probably not a good idea. A disinterested third party like myself not trying to sell me, but just a disinterested third party, is probably the best way to go. I said but I understand, I've seen this before, right. But I said listen, if you have any questions along the way, just reach out to me. It's not going to cost you anything. I'm happy to talk to you. So he and I have talked and communicated a little bit over the last couple of months and you know it's just. I felt good about it, like knowing I was doing the business without knowing I may not get paid.

Speaker 1: 38:08

It doesn't always. And what I'm going back it doesn't what, knowing I may not get paid, it doesn't always. And what I'm and going back it doesn't what I was referring to doesn't always mean that you're going to get paid exactly. It just means that you're being put in front of the people you're supposed to, for whatever reason that might be. It might not even be real estate yeah and I?

Speaker 3: 38:20

I I thought this to myself had I come across this guy like, like sales, might you got to choose me? He wouldn't have. No, no, he needed somebody to talk to, somebody to talk to about some ideas off of, and you know, somebody that he could trust.

Speaker 1: 38:34

I've got no interest in it, other than you know I might get the person talking to you, and that's what I'm talking about is it doesn'ting? I believe, if I do that, that's my avenue, my best avenue to get in front of people that I'm supposed to, whether it's for business related or not.

Speaker 2: 38:56

We need to make a Nike real estate podcast. Just do it.

Speaker 1: 39:02

I mean that's just do it. It's a good motto for prospecting. It really is.

Speaker 2: 39:05

And like I hate cold calling. I'm actually not bad at it. It like I can get on the call and I'm pretty good at talking to people because that's what I come from. But I, I don't know, I hate cold calling, but I do it. Yeah, you got to, I'll make myself do it.

Speaker 1: 39:25

Yeah, it's you got to be convicted and again disciplined about doing something repetitively. I don't like doing it, I know I'm good at it, yeah, but it comes back to discipline just like anything else. And dean, who was on our last episode? He sat there and he said the same thing. The results that can come from just being disciplined about prospecting and networking are incredible if you just stay at it. Right, yeah, but most people discount it.

Speaker 1: 39:49

Picking upicking up the phone is tough. Getting into a habit is tough. It's like the book Atomic Habits. Everyone focuses on the result they have and says, well, that's not the result I want. But the truth is results are a lagging measure of habits, whether they be financial or your health and what you feel and look like. Your sales results, your business. A result is a lagging measure that occurs after a series of habits have already taken place. So you can't get mad at the result. You can only get mad at yourself and your habits. And when you have that realization, life changes, because then you have to start holding yourself accountable to shit. You do have to, and that's a tough realization for people to have.

Speaker 2: 40:25

The book of Romans. In the Bible, he said I don't understand what I want to do, I don't do, but what I hate that I do. Like that it's true. He says I don't understand and, as business owners, sometimes I sit in my desk chair and I'm like I don't understand. I'm good at cold calling, I'm good at prospecting, I'm good at follow up with my clients and you know, know, if you do it, what it'll be you, but I hate doing it. Yeah, I want to do it, but, but I don't do it. Gotta get convicted about it. I know I might pray more about it. Yeah, that's a good idea I'd pray more about prospecting.

Speaker 1: 41:04

So we're gonna wrap it up with our last question both of you will answer individually. This is kind of like our legacy question. If you had one piece of advice, personal or professional, it can be a combination of the two. However, you want it to be Just one piece of advice from the start of your life to now that you would want to leave people with on this segment, what would that be?

Speaker 3: 41:26

I would say and this is kind of fresh in my mind because we've been sharing it with my kids as they're getting older and that is don't be afraid. So, being a small business owner, I was brought up that success is a 40-hour-a-week job with a good retirement, that's a good salary. That's success. You don't jump out and do sales because that's scary, that's success. You don't jump out and do sales because that's scary. And in reality I've done better than I would have in a 9 to 5 W2 job, as they say, and that was stepping away from this idea of being afraid. Jumping into real estate was scary. The first year was incredibly difficult and my mantra to myself and to everyone around me was failure is not an option. And you just said this is what I'm going to do. This is what I'm going to do. I stepped out and it was scary, but I can't imagine going back.

Speaker 1: 42:25

Yeah, and going back to how everyone's definition of success can be different too. And going back to how everyone's definition of success can be different too. Even in those times when it's really hard and scary and stressful, there may be some times where you can actually spend some time in your life doing some things that you wouldn't have been able to.

Speaker 1: 42:42

It is a blessing. So that trade-off is valuable, even when it's tough and you're trying to get to where you want to be Absolutely, and not to let those moments skip by when you're stressed is hard too. So don't be afraid, take the step. Yeah, I agree, it's a good one.

Speaker 2: 42:59

I would say be careful how you're influenced, because, although you want people, don't be influenced by people who will hold you down and hold you back. Because for years in my life I had people say this is as good as it gets, this is what you're going to have to do. You're going to have to graduate high school. This is the job you're going to have to do. You're going to have to get married, have a few kids, buy a house over here in this side of town. Just wash, rinse, repeat, that's as good as it gets. But take the risk, make the move, jump, like that's.

Speaker 2: 43:48

When I started taking the risk and I surrounded myself with and that I associated with, they told me my entire life this is as good as it gets. Well, they lied to me. You know, I hope they don't watch this podcast and maybe they didn't know. Well, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, but when I got out, when I took the risk, when I made the jump, I seen there's more to life, there's an unending supply, there's an abundance, an exceeding abundance, like, just keep chasing it.

Speaker 1: 44:24

But you have to take the risk, you have to not be scared, like Scott said, yeah, I agree, make the move, take the risk, and I think something to compound off of what you just said, because that is profound, is, um, that it's about getting advice. Uh, and jeff hoffman said this at level up one year and it stuck with me a lot is getting advice of people. Relevance, not proximity. Yeah, that's a good life lesson, just for anything business, personal, whatever it might be is to seek relevance and not proximity, because although in our proximity friends and close family we have a lot of love for those people, their opinion or their worldview might not be relevant to what problem we're trying to solve or where we're trying to go, and that you know. Seeking information of relevance and not proximity has really changed a lot of my comfort with taking risk and doing certain things.

Speaker 2: 45:14

Yeah, what was it Me and Kurt? Actually, I think I mentioned it to you a week or two ago. I was reading and I saw something that said if all your friends have is weekend plans, you need new friends. Yeah, yeah, like like surround yourself yourself, build your circle, basically. You know, I love to read, I'm a bookworm. I read another book that said association breeds assimilation.

Speaker 1: 45:40

Basically, who and what we associate ourself with ultimately becomes who and what we are yeah and uh it then that that is a step that is hard for some people to make because it means cutting some things off, but that if you want to be amateur at something, you can stay stuck around certain things and ideals and if you want to go pro at something, you have to cut off.

Speaker 2: 46:01

You have to be decisive about cutting certain things out that may even be people yeah, sometimes you start hanging around a bunch of pilots, there's a good chance you're going to get your pilot's license. Yeah Well, I just tell young agents go to the office.

Speaker 3: 46:15

Magic happens in the office, and it's not magic, it's nothing exciting, it's just. It's that, that, it's that juice, that juice, yeah, which is how we ended up here.

Speaker 1: 46:25

So yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate you guys coming on and talking to us and taking the time out of your schedule. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast with us. We have obviously we have a happy to be a special relationship with you guys working here in the office and appreciate you guys coming on. Thanks, guys, thank you Absolutely.